Hey everybody and welcome back to Subscription Box Basics. This is Julie Ball, your head coach, and I'm here with my friend Stefan. He is the founder of Subbly, and you guys, if you aren't already on Subbly or if you've never heard of Subbly, you are going to be blown away because this is the best software to run your subscription box business on right now. So without further ado, Stefan, welcome to the podcast. Why don't you give everyone a little bit of your background and introduce yourself. Hi, Julie. Thanks for having me on the podcast. I know we did it about a year ago and I really appreciate you having me back on again. So yeah, I'm the founder and CEO of Subbly and My accent is a little bit of a mess, but I'm from Scotland, just in case you're interested. And Subbly was born from an almost scratch your own itch story and situation where I used to run a digital marketing agency and a client wanted to start a subscription business and at the time there was no solution on the market that was going to make that accessible or affordable. So, that's when I started building Subbly. And that was about 10 years ago now, which is Crazy to be saying that but yeah, so Subbly is basically a dedicated platform essentially for subscription boxes, like your listeners. And we do service other use cases as well, just as a side note, but predominantly we've been focused on subscription boxes and it provides you with everything you need, you know, the website. The billing and all the other strategically focused and tactically focused features that you may need for growth that have been tried and tested by other experts in the industry. So, yeah, that's I'm obsessed with subscription boxes. I guess you could say. Same. Back when I launched my subscription box in 2016, right around, not long after I think you guys had kind of come to market. And at the time there weren't very many options, a lot of subscription box companies, or just e retailers that were adding subscriptions to their revenue stream had to piece together things. They had to almost hire developers and bring all of these different concepts together and piece it together. It was just such a mess. And at the time I used a software called Cratejoy. And over the years, you know, I've, I've talked about it a lot with my, my subscribers and it worked really well for me, but. Things have changed. Things are a lot different now, and we no longer recommend Cratejoy, but we recommend Subbly, over and above Cratejoy, over and above Shopify, and so many of the other popular options. And so I want to take some time today to talk about why, like, why would our listeners want to use Subbly instead? You know, you guys have a website builder that is a no code website builder, drag and drop. So if you're thinking about, Oh, I can't build myself a website. Yes, you can. Because Subbly has templates. And so what are some of those other things? Like, why would someone choose Subbly instead of CrateJoy or Shopify or the other subscription options? Yeah, this is such a heated question, right? Like it's a big question. It's a really big question, surprisingly, right? So, and it's one that I face every day, as you can probably imagine. And so I'm going to approach it from two sides. One is the philosophical side, and then the other is like the more kind of practical tactical side. So from a philosophical side Cratejoy, you mentioned fantastic marketplace, and that is exactly what their focus is, right? They're a marketplace for subscription boxes, when talking about Shopify, another one you mentioned Shopify is a traditionally transactional commerce platform. They're transactionally focused, but they, they rely heavily on their ecosystem of apps to extend that functionality into different places. Right. And then you've got other options that people commonly use like WordPress and WordPress is fundamentally a blog. Right. Let's just, let's not get it twisted. It is a blog. And then you've got is Wix and Squarespace. Those are also quite common. And those are fundamentally website builders, right? They're, they're not e commerce platforms. So now we've got the, the, the lay of the land in terms of each of the different options, there's us, Subbly, and we're a subscription first e commerce platform. So. Now let's unpack that a little bit further, because I think there's a lot there. And we could spend a long time talking about this, but I'll try and keep it as succinct as possible. So if your business is ultimately a subscription business we believe that you deserve a dedicated solution because what you'll find is these strung together solutions or these non aligned solutions end up costing you more money. They also introduce other operational inefficiencies. They can end up creating a poorer experience for your customers. Et cetera, et cetera. There's just a break. Yeah, if you're piecing things together, they can break. Yeah, I mean, like, let's take Shopify, right? So Shopify, if you were to run a subscription box, and you wanted to have a survey on there, for example, you're going to need Shopify, you're going to need subscription plugin, and you're also going to need a survey plugin, you're also going to need a bunch of other plugins, realistically speaking, to really get Close to what you're trying to replicate because ultimately everybody's trying to replicate another business. That's one thing we've learned. Everybody has like their inspiration and then it's just like an iteration of that. So when we built Subbly, it's. dedicated for your business model and we've got all the tools that you need in order to be able to do that without needing plugins and tools for your mission critical functions. So anything that's basically where the customer lands on your website all the way through to them finishing the purchase. And that's essential for that purchase to be successful. So that's what we consider mission critical. Historically we've, we've said like we're, Against plug in soup, as we used to call it and people now believe that we're anti plug in. We're actually not. You know, plug ins are essential, integrations are essential and necessary. we're focused on the mission critical functions and capabilities, the basic functionality of a subscription business. So yeah, ultimately, if you're using loads of plug ins, this introduces a bunch of issues. One is the cost. You're going to increase your costs. The second thing is that it's going to be a little bit more inefficient, cause you're going to be dealing with multiple different tools. You're going to be logging into different places. And when you want support, now this is one that is a really, really important one, when you want support, who do you talk to? Are you going to talk to your plugin? Are you going to talk to Shopify? Of the third parties is going to give you the answer that you're looking for? And then oftentimes you'll get sent in circles, so like you might contact Shopify because Shopify has got great support, but they're not versed in subscription businesses because it's not their focus. So if they go, Oh, you need to talk to recharge, then you go over to recharge and you ask them for support. And then say, maybe actually turns out. Yeah. If it was maybe a problem with Shopify Shop Pay, then they'll send you back to Shopify and you just can end up playing, customer support tennis or whatever you want to call it. And then another thing is as you become bigger and you grow and become more sophisticated your needs change and evolve and the costs actually scale a little bit exponentially. So you'll find that the bigger you are, suddenly the costs just go like this. So There's also another issue is that as you become more sophisticated, you're more likely to need an engineer or developers. That's probably true for most solutions, probably even Subbly to some extent. But what you'll find is that your developers need to become versed in multiple different, tools as well in documentation. So there's just a lot more complexity added when you have a stack as they call it of plugins. So we try to eliminate that and just simplify the whole thing and take all your core basic functionality that should be native for your model and because we believe your model deserves that then we eliminate all that complexity and it's just all it all understands one another, natively so yeah, that's pretty much it in a summary. Just as a side note, had a very interesting dialogue with some members on on one of the facebook groups recently and it was about wordpress and like You there's WordPress is a bit of an outlier. So WordPress, in order to run a subscription business, you'd need WordPress plus WooCommerce plus WooCom subscriptions. Now that's three layers and levels. Now it is. cheap in that it's arguably like close to free. I think there's like, I think there's a subscription now that you have to pay per year. It's like a hundred dollars or something like that for subscriptions. But ultimately this has also got its own set of issues and concerns, considerations. Again, I just want to be clear here. Everybody has their own priorities, right? So, somebody might see it as more important to have full control over the code, for example, or maybe somebody doesn't see it as much of a burden, the things that I'm about to say. So with WordPress, you're responsible for keeping the website. So you need to actually maintain your servers, make sure that they're patched, make sure that you've got a good hosting provider that's doing it for you. I'm familiar with WordPress, I used to build WordPress websites when I was running a digital marketing agency myself. And I can't tell you how many times my clients have broken their site because they have updated their plugin. But it wasn't compatible with their version of WordPress or it wasn't compatible with something else. And it was, as soon as I got an email with the subject line is help, I knew exactly what it was going to be. It was, I broke my WordPress website cause I tried to update it myself. Yeah. Yeah. you're right. And that's the next thing is the plugins, right. Keeping them up to date, keeping your WordPress up to date, the compatibility issues that can come from that. The security issues, if you don't Right. And that's another thing. I have a similar background to you and that ran an agency as well. When we were predominantly WordPress focused and it was not uncommon for a website to have been hacked or compromised. It would just happen. It was just part of what would happen. And you know, there's this other piece as well that, you know, from a philosophical level, I've mentioned already WordPress is ultimately a blog. It's a CMS. That's how it started. And then you've got a plugin making it into an e commerce platform. And then you've got a plugin making that e commerce platform into a subscription e commerce capable platform. There's a lot of layers there and extrapolations, and I think that actually does translate, even though the truth, I'm not saying it's not good, it's a fantastic product if you value what it is and what it can provide and if you value, as I said, full customization and you know, lower initial upfront costs, but then we've found repeatedly, At scale, and this can even start as low as like hundreds of subscribers, but especially at thousands, that the subscription billing breaks. It doesn't scale well. And I'm not going to get into the technical reasons for that, but overall generally it's to do with the way that the subscription billing works. So essentially it's a background process. And so sometimes that is just not efficiently built on other platforms that are not really native or really thinking about subscription. So, like, for example, at Subbly, we have a subscription building engine, and it's tried and tested, and we know it scales to millions of transactions and we've built that over years. But when you're trying to do it on top of something that's not built for subscription, it's going to introduce, inefficiencies and it's just not going to be a perfect solution for that functionality. It almost sounds like it's duct tape. You know, you're duct taping, you're trying to put together things that, yeah, they can work together, but is it the strongest when you're using duct tape? And I think the best way for our listeners to really grasp it is when you talked about mission critical. And I think as a subscription box business owner, we need to think about that. Like what? Is our mission critical. Like, what are the things that my software has to do to make this business work? And you guys check off all those boxes. So you've got your website builder, you've got operational tools, you've got transactional tools, email tools, like all the tools that you would need, you literally can run it with just your software, if that's what you choose to do. And so I think that's what I take from this is. All those other softwares are good for what they were built for, but Subbly was built for subscriptions and the other softwares we talked about weren't built for subscriptions. Yeah, exactly. I think that you know, I sometimes say it's the sum of a hundred parts, right? So like, You know, people challenges often like, Oh, why, you know, why are plugins so bad? Like what, what really makes somebody different to Shopify, for example? Well, the developers in that ecosystem have not considered subscription cause that's not their primary focus and it's just like the sum of like a lot of little parts. I'm not saying Subbly's perfect by the way. And it is like down to preferences. I mean, at the end of the day, if somebody is used to working with Wix and they just want to get to the website at the door. They're probably going to be inclined to go and just like, Oh, I'll just use what I know and what works. But there is a problem that that creates later. And that's where we find people moving to Subbly because they're like, I've ran into the limits here and I, I want to solve that and untangle that. And it can be quite problematic to untangle a migration. It can get pretty, frustrating. But we've got solutions for that. Well, good. Cause I think that's a great segue because I know, a lot of our listeners are, starting from scratch and they're like, okay, this could be the software for me, but what about those people that have been running their business on other platforms already and are hitting those roadblocks, whether it is becoming too expensive as they scale, or maybe it is, they don't have the features that they want for their business. So let's talk about what that looks like to even switch. Yeah, so overall as a process it used to be a lot more straightforward but there's been a few things changing in the industry that have really very anti competitive and anti subscription business. And again, this is kind of like we describe ourselves as subscription first, and one of the benefits of us being subscription first is that we're incentivized for you to succeed as a subscription business, but we're also we're very knowledgeable about your business model and we can provide the adequate support for it. But, you know, what we've noticed in the industry, and this is pretty alarming, to be honest with you. You know, I don't like pointing fingers, but Shopify introduced ShopPay. It's a great product. It's consumer facing. It's a wallet. You know, it does have a great conversion rate. But all the merchants have been encouraged to actually adopt through selling the benefits of ShopPay, because it is a great product. But the problem is and we thought this was limited to ShopPay, by the way, just to be clear, that once you are on there, you cannot get your tokens off of it. that you do not have control over your payment tokens. Now, let me just unpack that really quickly. Payment tokens. Yeah. So when a customer puts their card details into your website, they are tokenized and then they're stored in the server. And that's for security reasons. It's like you never touch the actual credit card details. So these tokens essentially are what you can use to do that. Charge the card, right? So it's an identifier essentially. That's how you send the instruction to the gateway to say, charge this card. Okay. Every month or a week or quarter, like it's, it's your lifeblood. Literally, it's the most important part of your whole entire business, apart from the actual email address of the customers. So they do not give you that. Again, we thought it was just shop pay, turns out it's actually, even if you use your own Stripe account with, with Shopify, they've now made it impossible to get the tokens off. And this is again, because they're a transaction focused business. So for them, yeah, it makes their product more sticky. You know, it makes it harder to leave and I can understand the, the desire to make it more difficult to leave, but I I'd want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that that's not why they've done it. But I think at the same time, generally speaking, just because they're a transaction focused business, right? they're wanting to create the best tools possible that they know are going to help transaction businesses perform. And they do, they work really well. But when it comes to subscription business, because it's not their focus, the subscription business is actually the one who's suffering because they need those tokens and they can't go anywhere without those tokens. The same is also true for Cratejoy. They've changed their policies to do the same. So these tokens they're being withheld as well. You're not able to get them. You're not able to request an export like you used to be able to. of that is because we believe Shopify has set the precedent. And again, people are not thinking about it as like, well, Shopify are not focused on subscription businesses. Wix also do this. I think that's pretty much it. Those are the three main ones, but it looks like a trend. So normal businesses are doing this. And I will say this right now that we do not hold your tokens or your data hostage at Subbly. And, and if you want to leave, you can leave. So here's a quick recommendation and a quick tip. If you are thinking about starting a subscription business, try us first, try it. And if you have a hard time with us, fine, you can go and go somewhere else. At least, you know, you've tried and you're able to leave. And we're not going to stop you from leaving. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Cause it's not like When you're talking about tokens, it's not like me as the business owner, I'm not going to physically hold these tokens or do anything with these tokens. The problem is that if my needs change as a business owner, I can't move those tokens me when, when I'm with Shopify or with crate joy or whatnot. So if you're, if you're wondering, like, what is he talking about? These tokens? That's, that's, Again, how you can charge a credit card. And so if your needs change and you're like, okay, I want to try a different software for my business. You're, you're kind of in handcuffs. Yeah, thanks for keeping me on track because I get, get a little technical at times, so apologies. but yeah, you're, you're spot on. If you wanted to move, that means that you can't essentially, makes it a lot harder anyway, right? So and just to be clear, Shopify is a really fantastic platform. And I'm not, I'm not, you know, throwing shade. I think it's really impressive. But as you said, as your needs change and evolve, right? So maybe you've decided I am a subscription box and I'm really going to go down this path. And then at that point, it's like, okay, well, maybe the tooling is limiting you or all the things that we've mentioned already. So I want to go to Subbly. Let's talk about that. So I want to go to a more dedicated solution, such as Subbly. So we've come up with a solution for this and we actually call it the subscription switch protocol. And so normally without the tokens, what you need to do is let, you'd have two websites running essentially. You'd have your new website and then you'd leave the old one running in the background. And then over time you would take new customers to the new website. And then the old one would churn out over time. In that timeline we've done some numbers on it and essentially 14 months to have 80 percent typical average churn for them to churn out on the old platform. That means you're going to be running two platforms for over a year when you get to 100%. And then what we've done is we've created this whole entire protocol to create friction in the right places and to build a campaign around it, so that essentially you can reclaim your payment tokens from your customers through Subbly. And we're seeing that it's, yeah, that's right, it's 11 days to get to 80 percent instead of 14 months. On average. Wow, okay. That's good news. Yes. So, this, this protocol, we run it over like a month, depending on your specific case and needs. Month to, it could be two months, it could be a couple of weeks, depends on what your appetite is. But yeah, the numbers are showing that we're getting percent of the tokens reclaimed within 11 days. Versus 80 percent over 14 months if we didn't do the protocol. Gotcha. So you're saying there's hope if someone is over there just pulling their hair out saying I need to switch and I don't know how to do this, your team over at Subbly, the support team, can help them with this protocol that you've already created. So that's really good news. And guys, keep listening because at the end of the episode, we're going to give you really special offer if you want to switch, and we're also going to give a special offer if you are starting from scratch and you want to give Subbly a try with very low risk, so let's shift the topic here. It's been about a year since I had you on the podcast. I want to know about some of the new features you've implemented. Recently that you are really, really excited about. And I have a couple that I want to talk about as well. So you, you go first. Okay. Yeah. I think one of the most notable ones recently is that we have the new checkout template. So flashback a couple of years, we started rebuilding our checkout from the ground up. And we consolidated everything that we've learned over the last 10 years into this new essentially product. So. The, the idea is that now we can actually build templates for the checkout so you can choose your ideal checkout design or flow. So we now have two checkout templates and the new one is a one page template. Checkout rather than like multi step. So this is just the beginning of this journey, but that's something that's very exciting. And, you know, we're seeing that it's got a higher conversion rate, for example which is pretty exciting. So that's one thing that I'm particularly excited about. There's something else that's not a hundred percent related to you subscription box owners, but we did launch a really, really comprehensive product called bundles. If you were running a meal kit or meal prep subscription business, that would be like great news for you. Another thing that was pretty cool and seems like a small thing, but it's quite notable. So we have a survey builder on Subbly, so you can build like a form essentially, right? Like a questionnaire or quiz, whatever you want to call it for your onboarding flow. Typically, that was always pre purchase. When I say pre purchase, I mean before they actually checkout. But we've actually made it possible for you to do that post purchase, which means after they check out, so that you can collect that data afterwards, which can reduce friction and also lead to a higher conversion rate. If that data is not mission critical for you to fulfill those orders. That's a big one. Definitely. So there's a couple of things. And I think this is just a chance for me to, to, to say like the questions that I get asked a lot about, like, does Subbly do thisdoes Subbly do this. Yes, you can do one time products. Yes. You can offer gift cards. Yes. You can have sequential subscriptions and subscriptions that are a specific length. So I've had people say, I want to do a one year plan where, they start with box one and they end with box 12. Can you do that? It's like, yes, yes, yes. You can do all that. And then one of the other things that I love. Is that you guys offer really flexible sales cycles. So for example, if you want to ship weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually, or you could create your own custom sales cycle. Like you're just giving the steering wheel back to the business owner to drive their business the way they want to go. Whereas a lot of these other platforms are, you know, you have to only do anniversary sales cycles, meaning that if someone joins on the first, then they're going to renew on the first. And that just doesn't work for everybody. So I really appreciate some of those super basic things that get overlooked in other softwares. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny because, you know, I think it's become more complex over time as we cover more and more cases. And you know, as you said, not every business is going to follow the basic script. And that's created a new challenge for us. Just as I do it, like we're trying to make it so that it's. Easy for those who do have the basic script, but also that you can dive in and go make it more complex and more unique to your specific needs as a business. So that's something that we're constantly trying to balance that. So if we haven't got it right, please let me know. Cause I'm open to all feedback and we want to make sure that it's easy to use. But yeah, I would say you can pretty much set up almost any cadence or that you can imagine essentially any setup or cycle yeah, and we have commitment terms. This is pretty specific. So you can set up, for example, you could do prepaid 12 months, you could do 12 months. paid monthly, and then they're committed for that 12 months. There's something else that's coming out, I think, this week or next week which is basically auto expiring subscriptions. So instead of doing a commitment term or prepaid, you could do a fixed term that ends instead of continuing to renew after that as well. That's something that we're introducing because that was a big request. Yeah, so there's, there's a lot there. And challenge us on, if there's something that we haven't thought about for subscription businesses. Yeah, like if there's features that you need, I know you guys are open to hearing about that. I have to mention too, that just because I, you know, used to run a box business called Sparkle Hustle Grow and one of our Membership benefits was digital content. You guys implemented that digital content feed, which I love. Now, if I was still running the business, I could run the entire thing without having to add on a another platform just for digital content, another platform for this and for that. And so I, I just love that. And I Have to give you guys a big shout out. Yeah, I know the content feed it is it is still like the first version of it, but You know and that brings me on to another point that like we're always improving and we're still very early on this mission Like we're we're here for it. And so if you do have feedback i'm I want to hear it And we appreciate the, the loyalty that our customers have given us because we wouldn't be here without them because we are bootstrapped. And at the same time, we are excited about the things that we're working on as well. So I hope that, that people can exercise a little bit of patience because I know there's a lot of demand at the moment for, for various features. But yeah, it's a, it's a good time on our mission right now. I'm glad you said that. You don't see that with other companies. You don't see that in other softwares where you can tell them I need this feature and if it's a true feature, that's going to benefit the, greater community, you guys actually implement it. And I think that's really, really. A great way to look at it. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it goes on the backlog. We discuss it and we prioritize it. And you know, it might not happen tomorrow, but it's on there and we're planning towards it. one other thing I want to mention actually, and I think this is really important. And although it's not a new feature, it's been around for a while, but I just see a lot of subscription boxes failing to leverage this. And that is the funnels inside of Subbly. Essentially funnels allow you to build offer chains, so you can do like an upsell or a downsell and you can do it pre purchase or before the checkout, during the checkout or after the checkout post purchase. the hardest part is for people to think about what they can offer. Like what product can I offer as an upsell? But every time this is enabled, we see an uplift in AOV, which is the average order value, the amount of money per order on average that is spent on their store and that can be the difference between spending more on ads and succeeding and compounding and not, it's such an important piece and I need to mention it because if you are using Subbly, get on the funnels and set up your upsell offers, because I'm sure you've got inventory sitting around. Make the most of it. We used to offer last month's box as an upsell during the subscribe flow, but I can imagine how impactful that might be. Also, after the purchase has been made, like post purchase upsell, because you've already captured their subscription, their payment information. They've already made their decision at this point. So that friction is so much lower. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's a one click upsell. So at any stage it's basically your opt in. So if it's before the checkout, it's going to add it to the cart. If it's during the checkout, it's going to add it to the cart. But if it's after the checkout, it's just one click, the same order information, like the, the shipping address, the payment information all of that's just used again. And it's super effective, as you said, because they've already made a commitment to your brand. There's trust that it's like reverse rationalization. And then what works really well there is if it's a value add. Like this is going to make your, what you've just committed to even more value. And I think that's probably the best approach to think about it. Like, okay, how can I enhance their experience even further and give them a really juicy offer? To make the most of that affinity they've built with your brand by, signing the dotted line essentially by clicking submit. Nice. All right, so let's bring this home. We've talked a lot about, the landscape. We've talked a lot about the features. We've talked about what's working right now. So if someone is interested in starting from scratch with Subbly, we have a special offer for them. Will you tell them about that special offer? Yeah, certainly. So, we're doing three months free on, on Subbly if you're new to Subbly and you're just starting out, and you need to go to Subbly. co, S U B B L Y dot C O forward slash julie. And that will take you to the actual offer and you'll get the three months free when you sign up for the trial, essentially it's a three months free trial and it's so important at that front end, like when you're just starting your business, Your money is going to be going out the door on inventory. On all these different things. And to have three months free of your core software to me, it's just, it's a no brainer. So if someone is on a different platform and they're thinking about switching, You have an offer for them as well. Right. Yeah. So, you know, we spoke about the subscription switch protocol earlier and how that's proving to be really successful. Just as a quick note, by the way, it's not necessary for everybody. There are situations where we can migrate you really easily with the old process that has been tried and tested over hundreds, if not thousands, of, of migrations. So Yeah, it's the subscription switch protocol. I'm just mentioning it because it's there for those who need to use it. But for those who are already running their business and have subscribers and they're on another platform that's not Subbly, we're giving away 12 months free when you switch to Subbly. And just to be clear, because I know that some people ask this question, the reason that we can offer that is because of the transaction fee that we charge. So it keeps the light on, you know, And there's also you know, you guys who are running a business on another platform we understand that it's an inconvenience and there's a big switching cost involved for you too. So it's kind of like meeting you in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. So even more so today than in the past, but but yeah, so 12 months free when you switch to Subbly in order to claim that we can give a link, Julie, to put in the show notes, but also just reach out to our and that offer you can claim that before October 31st of this year, 2024. I'll make sure those links are in the show notes, but if they're trying to reach WSupport, is the best way to use the chat function that you guys have, or is there an email? Yeah, you can, you can do either. So support at subbly dot co or you can go onto our website and there's a little green bubble at the bottom, right? Just click it and then you'll get through to the chat widget, which will bring you directly to the team. It's not real time. It's close to it though. It's like 10 minute response time. Okay. That's awesome. Okay. We will make sure to put all of that information in the show notes so that The newbies can try it for free. If you're listening and you're thinking about switching, you can have that conversation and cash in on those 12 months free. Those will expire October 31st of 2024. Make sure you apply before then, because the way it works is once you, you get the interest submitted, we'll then, you know, chat you through the process and then we'll give you three months to actually get set up and do the migration. So there's like a grace period there for the T for you to lock in the rest of the 12 months. So very cool. Just make sure you submit your interest before October 31st. Love it. Okay. So if you're listening and you have questions about Subbly, you know, you can always reach me in the DMs of Subscription box basics on Instagram, happy to answer any questions, or you can try out the chat feature on Subbly dot Stefan, thank you for joining me again and for sharing everything that you know about what is going on in the industry. What are the challenges and building features to solve those problems? Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me on the podcast, Julie. And feel free to reach out to us. We'd love to, get you set up and, and, provide you with advice even if you don't choose Subbly. So just hit up the Subbly team. Thanks so much. All right, everyone. Thanks for listening today, and we'll see you in the next episode. Bye.